Talk:Besieged Server Records
__TOC__ Article for Deletion Delete: This article provides no factual data to the wiki. It provides no guide, tips, suggestions or any other sort of data routinely found in a guide. The wiki is not a 'top scores' database. The wiki is not list of individual, group, or server based accomplishments. The Wiki is a research tool for individuals interested in learning how to play the game. This material is best placed in a forums or blog. Not the Wiki. --Mierin 12:00, 17 July 2006 (EDT) Comment: I'm not sure if I mind having this information in FFXIclopedia. My problem was that it did not belong on the Besieged page because it was taking away from the article. This information is fact, it did happen, but FFXIclopedia is also not an archive for records. If it were, we'd be storing BCNM, ENM, etc records. I think relying on people from every server to continue to update this page will become a problem and it will never be as up to date or accurate as the rest of FFXIclopedia. A page of this type will always be falling behind and I like to think the "FFXIclopedia standard" is better than that. --Ganiman 12:19, 17 July 2006 (EDT) Comment: Would this be more factual/helpful if it specifically referenced something in the game that effects gameplay? Unlike ENM/BCNM and other event records, Besieged wins and losses can effect how you play in the new areas... The warp taru has different locations, I think Sanction works differently when the cities defense is low, and it effects the kind of missions available. If the article could be changed to reflect some of these informations, it might be suitable to keep, but it may still be too much work to update all the time for it to be worthwhile, as it would require constant vigilance. --Chrisjander 12:29, 17 July 2006 (EDT) Comment: Not sure of my position yet but leaning towards keep. It is true that it will never be fully up to date, but so long as the records are never reset, the information can be gathered and the page updated. BCNM/ENM records get reset all the time and therefore are basically temporary records. If the besieged records are purged on any quasi-regular basis by SE (i.e. during updates/upgrade) then I think this is useless. If the data is fully maintained then I think it can be kept. --Gahoo 12:59, 17 July 2006 (EDT) Comment: I agree with Gahoo. If the record is reset during during maintance or an update I would say to delete it. Yet, if it doesn't, I would like to see it stay. I disagree with Ganiman's definition of what this site is about. There are plenty of other sites out there that are better research tools then FFXIclopedia. What I like about this site is that it is more then a research tool. It is an encloypedia of information about the game that goes beyond the numberous walk-through type sites. I don't think we ought to limit ourselves into making this another guide site because I beleive it could be so much more. --Pinkfae 13:24, 17 July 2006 (EDT) Merge: I think this needs to be merged back to the besiege article. leave it towards the bottom like it originally was, maybe modify the table to make it go "Server Score Server Score" instead of "Server Score" (make it less tall). This is interesting info to have, but it doesn't need it's own page. If moving it back to the main page won't work, delete --feba22:17, 17 July 2006 (EDT) Comment: I didn't see records resetting with maintenance. This should remain, even if it isn't going to be fully up to date. It is up to each server to keep up with the list, and if one server doesn't want to keep it up it isn't my problem. -- Ayrlie 21:40, 17 July 2006 (CDT) Keep: I'm new as a contributor to FFXIclopedia, but I think this page should stay. Mainly for the reasons already mentioned by Gahoo and Pinkfae above, but also because I don't think this type of page can be maintained on another type of site; the collaborative nature of wiki is necessary to gather information from so many different servers. I think that something like Wikipedia's current events template might be useful here, warning users that some data is not current, but that by itself is no reason not to attempt to maintain the page at all. Also, I think statements of the form "The Wiki is" or "The Wiki is not" should be used and viewed with caution. Wiki is a community endeavor and should generally be defined as broadly as the contributors collectively want to define it, IMO. Karinya of Carbuncle 15:06, 18 July 2006 (EDT) Keep: I would like to vote that it stays. While it does not quite match what Wiki is, a respository of infomation, it is about the only place that this information could be. It should not have more than a single link in the besisged title page. This is just my feelings Elfi Wolfe 15:35, 18 July 2006 (EDT) Server Record Discussion Maybe there should be a section on server records, like the order each server first lost a besieged and to whom. Maybe every 2 or 3 months, this section, or maybe subpage could be updated by people from each server to give the win:loss ratio over time. I envision a table, like 2Q 06 3Q 06 4Q 06 1Q 07, etc, with rows for each server. Here's what I've gathered so far: Losses Fenrir- 4/27/06 to Mamool Ja Savages (due to a maintenance) Garuda- mid-May to Undead Swarm (source) --Ichthyos 14:48, 19 June 2006 (PDT) Alexander- 5/19/06 to Mamool Ja Savages (due to a maintenance) Hades- 5/28/06 to Undead Swarm Ifrit- 5/31/06 to Undead Swarm Cerberus- 6/5/06 to Mamool Ja Savages Midgardsormr- 6/7/06 to Mamool Ja Savages Ragnarok- 6/7/06 to Undead Swarm Bismarck- 6/8/06 to Mamool Ja Savages Midgardsormr- 6/15/06 to Undead Swarm (source) --Ichthyos 14:51, 19 June 2006 (PDT) Shiva - 6/15/06 - to Mamool Ja Savages --Snojoex 15:54, 19 June 2006 (PDT) (NOTE: I can't remember exact day last week, but I am almost positive it was the 16th, anyone else can confirm these, please do.) - I managed to confirm it occurred on 6/15/06. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 12:57, 21 June 2006 (PDT) I was informed Shiva lost to the Mamool Ja, not the Trolls, as previously thought. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 20:30, 23 June 2006 (PDT) Bismarck- 6/18/06 to Undead Swarm (source) --Ichthyos 14:48, 19 June 2006 (PDT) Pandemonium- 6/18/06 to Undead Swarm (source) --Ichthyos 14:42, 19 June 2006 (PDT) Odin- 6/19/06 to Undead Swarm (due to a maintenance) (source) --Ichthyos 14:32, 19 June 2006 (PDT) Fairy- 6/19/06 to Troll Mercenaries (due to a maintenance) (source) --Ichthyos 15:18, 19 June 2006 (PDT). Seraph- 6/??/06 to Undead Swarm Hades- 6/??/06 to ?????? (2nd loss) Remora- 6/22/06 to Undead Swarm http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=1150775687242775376;page=1#1151119689179802875 Alexander- 6/26/06 to Mamool Ja Savages Midgardsormr- 6/27/06 to Mamool Ja Savages (3rd loss so far) Seraph- 6/28/06 to Undead Swarm (2nd loss, separate from previous Undead loss) Ifrit- 6/28/06 to Mamool Ja Savages source --Ichthyos 00:52, 6 July 2006 (PDT) Fairy- 6/29/06 to Mamool Ja Savages source from Aurik. --Ichthyos 00:52, 6 July 2006 (PDT) Hades- 6/29/06 to Mamool Ja Savages (3rd loss so far) Asura- 7/2/06 to Mamool Ja Savages source --Ichthyos 14:21, 3 July 2006 (PDT) Kujata- 7/2/06 to ?????? source --Ichthyos 14:21, 3 July 2006 (PDT) Midgardsormr- 7/4/06 to ?????? source --Ichthyos 00:52, 6 July 2006 (PDT) Gilgamesh- 7/4/06 to Undead Swarm source --Ichthyos 00:52, 6 July 2006 (PDT) Garuda- 7/5/06 to Undead Swarm source --Ichthyos 00:52, 6 July 2006 (PDT) Ragnarok- 7/11/06 to ?????? source --Ichthyos 15:41, 12 July 2006 (EDT) Gilgamesh- 7/12/06 to ?????? source --Ichthyos 21:09, 12 July 2006 (EDT) Sylph- 7/12/06 to Mamool Ja Savages source --Ichthyos 04:39, 13 July 2006 (EDT) ---- Excluding the 4 technical losses: 7 losses to Mamool Ja, 10 losses to Undead, 0 losses to Trolls, 3 data missing Conclusion: the Undead are the most powerful, the Trolls completely suck--zoogelio-forgot-his-password 19:51, 29 June 2006 (PDT) If people can update the missing info from Ifrit's 2nd loss and add new losses, that would be cool since I'm only going to be able to check forums for any server losses sporadically between now and late July. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 17:22, 4 July 2006 (PDT) Apparently, only Odin & Fairy lost during the June 19th Blitz. I still have yet to hear from Bahamut, Phoenix, Alexander, Ragnarok, Cerberus, Bismarck, Hades. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 12:57, 21 June 2006 (PDT) - Shiva's sole loss was the 15th, as you confirmed, nothing on 6/19. --Snojoex 17:41, 21 June 2006 (PDT) I heard back from Bahamut, Alexander, Cerberus. Alexander lost Any server not listed here apparently hasn't lost. And before the July update, can players from each server get their win-loss numbers so we can have the record in case the update purges it. If updates purge it, then we can just post the win-loss ratios for the segments between updates (since FFXI regularly has 5 updates/year in Feb, April, July, Oct, Dec). --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 18:32, 10 June 2006 (PDT) -- updated: --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 16:31, 16 June 2006 (PDT) Remora lost to Mammol Ja Savages on 17 July 2006. Only 250 peeps in Al Zahbi for the level 5 attack. -- Ayrlie 21:43, 17 July 2006 How to determin records Booya! It just hit me, we have this column (in server order, not alphabetical: so Bahamut on top, Hades on bottom) and record the scores, the date listed and if scores are purged every update, we create a second table, one with the date stripped from it and just the final score listed. So, in essence, there would be 2 tables: the active besieged cycle and the historical cycle, both listed separately. And when an active cycle becomes a historic cycle, it will be moved from the active table into the historic table, forming a new column, and the active table becomes blank. That's if the scores are purged. I recommend going ahead with what you outlined above. Server order is found on the server page on FFXI wiki or by checking the connection status of all servers on the POL website. (I'd like to see Atomos Server's score. I'm sure its 0-100 by now :D) --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 17:08, 20 June 2006 (PDT) Edit: I still would like to keep a running account of server losses: when and to whom at least until every server has lost once to all 3 armies. ---- How do you look up the win-loss record? Do you have to talk to an NPC or is it given somewhere on the regional map? The article doesn't mention this. Thanks. --Pinkfae 14:22, 23 June 2006 (PDT) Talk to any Sanction guard, select "I have some questions..." > "Besieged." > "Empire's current state of defense." --Ichthyos 14:27, 23 June 2006 (PDT) ---- See Sanction. --Gahoo 14:29, 23 June 2006 (PDT) --- Besieged timers reset after every maintenance. Expect 2 to 4 besieges within a short time of each hour once maintenance ends. -- [Ayrlie 23:23, 23 June 2006 (CDT) ---- FFXIclopedia needs reporters for Alexander, Ifrit, Ragnarok, Pandemonium, Garuda, Cerberus, Kujata, and Seraph. Anyone who's a regular on here who can post the numbers for these servers? And I'm wondering if it can be coordinated to get officially designated reporters for all 32 servers who can update the numbers for their server here weekly (whatever day of the week suits them best). And to get these same people to post the numbers the hours before the July update (just in case the numbers get purged with the update so we can have numbers that are collected at about the same time for all servers so the most they could be off is by 1). --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 13:11, 29 June 2006 (PDT) ---- Fairy apparently lost again today: http://ffxi.killvoid.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=125926 --Aurikasura 18:05, 29 June 2006 (PDT) Records moved The records look nice on their own page. A little room to spice up the page, but I have to say I'm pleased with the move --Ganiman 05:59, 6 July 2006 (PDT) Asura info Ah Asura lost at least once to Mamool Ja >.< I'll check and edit later what the new 'score' is because it's been back since err Saturday and I know we won the next attack by the trolls --Tattersail 06:31, 10 July 2006 (PDT) Server Losses (Details) This is a more detailed table with all the information above. It's everything I have gathered up. I'm using this to determine the order servers lost their 1st besieged, who lost twice before the others, who lost first, second, fifth, etc to the Undead, etc. It's only for maintaining records, NOT for any bragging rights (every server has its strong points and weak points). My eventual aim is to have a Server Statistics section on each server page with information derived from this, the order Relic Weapons were obtained in/which ones a server obtained before other servers, etc, and the order the servers beat Twinkling Treant in. See its page for a table of the info I was able to gather up on it. BESIEGED SERVER LOSSES * Fenrir 1- 4/27/06 to Mamool Ja Savages (due to a maintenance) -> NOT COUNTED * Alexander 1- 5/19/06 to Mamool Ja Savages (due to a maintenance) -> NOT COUNTED * Garuda 1- ~5/26/06 to Undead Swarm Information: an English-speaking poster said it was "a week or 2 ago" (from a May 28th post), but a Japanese blog was found with pictures of 3 Lamia guarding an Astral Plinth and a mention of the names of those NMs on their May 27th entry. Therefore it is assumed this loss was one day earlier, May 26th. -> 1st loss for Garuda -> 1st server to lose (not due to a technicality) -> 1st loss to Undead Swarm * Hades 1- 5/28/06 to Undead Swarm -> 1st loss for Hades -> 2nd server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Seraph 1- 5/30/06 to Undead Swarm -> 1st loss for Seraph -> 3rd server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Ifrit 1- 5/31/06 to Undead Swarm -> 1st loss for Ifrit -> 4th server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Cerberus 1- 6/5/06 to Mamool Ja Savages -> 1st loss for Cerberus -> 5th server to lose (not due to a technicality) -> 1st loss to Mamool Ja Savages (not due to a technicality) * Midgardsormr 1- 6/7/06 to Mamool Ja Savages (4:45PM EDT) -> 1st loss for Midgardsormr -> 6th server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Ragnarok 1- 6/7/06 to Undead Swarm or earlier early evening? -> 1st loss for Ragnarok -> 7th server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Bismarck 1- 6/8/06 to Mamool Ja Savages -> 1st loss for Bismarck -> 8th server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Midgardsormr 2- 6/15/06 to Undead Swarm or earlier -> 2nd loss for Midgardsormr -> 1st time a server lost 2 times -> 1st time a server lost to 2 different armies * Shiva 1 - 6/15/06 to Mamool Ja Savages was during the afternoon -> 1st loss for Shiva -> 9th server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Bismarck 2- 6/18/06 to Undead Swarm [<<<< time needed <<<<] -> 2nd loss for Bismarck -> 2nd time a server lost 2 times * Pandemonium 1- 6/18/06 to Undead Swarm GMT -> 1st loss for Pandemonium -> 10th server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Odin 1- 6/19/06 to Undead Swarm (due to a maintenance) -> NOT COUNTED * Fairy 1- 6/19/06 to Troll Mercenaries (due to a maintenance) -> NOT COUNTED * Remora 1- 6/22/06 to Undead Swarm (7:30PM EDT) Data: fell due to only 250 people being in the zone at the time. -> 1st loss for Remora -> 11th server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Hades 2- 6/26/06 to Mamool Ja -> 2nd loss for Hades * Alexander 2- 6/26/06 to Mamool Ja Savages -> 1st non-technical loss for Alexander -> 12th server to lose (not due to technicality) * Midgardsormr 3- 6/27/06 to Mamool Ja on June 27th -> 3rd loss for Midgardsormr -> 1st time a server lost 3 times -> 1st time a server lost twice to the same army Hades2 lost to Undead * Seraph 2- 6/28/06 to Undead Swarm -> 2nd loss for Seraph -> 2nd time a server lost twice to the same army Hades2 lost to Undead * Ifrit 2- 6/28/06 to Mamool Ja afternoon -> 2nd loss for Ifrit * Fairy 2- 6/29/06 to Mamool Ja EDT -> 1st non-technical loss for Fairy -> 13th server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Hades 3- 6/29/06 to Mamool Ja EDT -> 3rd loss for Hades -> 2nd time a server lost 3 times * Kujata 1- 7/2/06 to Mamool Ja afternoon 7:29PM EDT -> 1st loss for Kujata -> 14th server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Asura 1- 7/2/06 to Mamool Ja afternoon -> 1st loss for Asura -> 15th server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Bismarck 3- 7/2/06 to Undead 23:00 GMT -> 3rd loss for Bismarck -> 3rd time a server lost 3 times * Gilgamesh 1- 7/4/06 to Undead -> 1st loss for Gilgamesh -> 16th server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Midgardsormr 4- 7/4/06 to Mamool Ja 22:25 GMT -> 4th loss for Midgardsormr -> << 1st or 2nd>> server to lose 4 times * Garuda 2- 7/5/06 to Undead -> 2nd loss for Garuda * Hades 4- <<< date and army needed >>> (on or before 7/5/06) * Asura 2- 7/5/06 or 7/6/06 to Undead points to 7/6/06 -> 2nd loss for Asura * Sylph 1- 7/6/06 to Undead -> 1st loss for Sylph ->17th server to lose (not due to a technicality) * Fairy 3- 7/6/06 to Undead -> 2nd non-technical loss for Fairy * Seraph 3- 7/6/06 to Undead 20:50 GMT -> 3rd loss for Seraph -> 4th or 5th time a server lost 3 times * Remora 2- 7/7/06 to Undead Swarm -> 2nd loss for Remora * Bismarck 4- 7/10/06 to Mamool Ja -> 4th loss for Bismarck -> 3rd time a server lost 4 times * Remora 3- 7/10/06 to Mamool Ja GMT Data: apparently occurred because 3 Generals were not rescued from Halvung earlier in the day and people stopped caring once the server's unbeaten streak was broken -> 3rd loss for Remora -> 6th time a server lost 3 times * Ragnarok 2- 7/11/06 to Mamool Ja -> 2nd loss for Ragnarok * Sylph 2- 7/12/06 to Mamool Ja -> 2nd loss for Sylph * Gilgamesh 2- 7/12/06 to Mamool Ja 7:52PM eastern time -> 2nd loss for Gilgamesh * Seraph 4- 7/13/06 to Undead -> 4th loss for Seraph -> 4th time a server lost 4 times --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 14:14, 13 July 2006 (EDT) 7/13 Seraph loss #4 Undead